Season 2 Episode 8: ADHD and Money
* Content Warning: This episode mentions gambling
IN THIS EPISODE
Join Mel and Darlene as they chat with Kelly Bracegirdle, who shares her journey of living with ADHD and discovering her diagnosis as an adult. Kelly opens up about her money story, the emotional aspects of finances, and the concept of the "ADHD tax," which includes unintentional expenses like online shopping, wasted food, and overlooked subscriptions.
Kelly offers practical strategies for curbing impulsive spending, such as leaving online shopping carts open for a couple of days to reassess purchases. Darlene adds valuable tips on managing bank accounts to reduce financial stress and making informed decisions based on reality rather than fear.
Kelly also shares her methods for staying organized, including categorizing items and using visual boards. She emphasizes the importance of simplified systems and clarity. The conversation touches on budgeting, banking, and the challenge of balancing rest and productivity in her job, highlighting the unique needs of neurodiverse individuals.
The discussion extends to how workplaces can better support neurodiversity with increased flexibility and empathy. Finally, Mel and Darlene answer this week's question about handling an expiring home loan fixed rate, offering advice on understanding new repayments, refinancing options, and choosing the right bank.
RESOURCES IN THIS EPISODE
Take a look at our repayment calculator to see what your interest rate change might look like in real terms: https://www.themoneycollective.com.au/repayment
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0:00
Welcome to the Money Collective Podcast. We're here to uplift your financial wellbeing. Your hosts are me, Mel Pearce, and Darlene Neu. We are the cofounders of The Money Collective and together we have over 50 years of finance and banking experience. We provide the tools, information and guidance to better understand your money and feel confident making money decisions.
0:21
Hi, welcome back to another podcast recording. As per usual, we love to open and just get straight stuck into it today. Yep. And talk a bit of a truth. OK, truth, my truth. Today I am going to talk about Tattslotto tickets.
0:45
It's been, it comes up from time to time in our household. I I'm not really into Tattslotto. OK, not my deal. I mean, I'm a maths girl, right? So odds, odds and Tattslotto very low, ridiculously low. I don't even know them off top my head. All I know is, you know, it's very low to win anything in Tattslotto. But my husband has played Tattslotto. Dennis is his name, since probably we were married and we've been married 32 years.
1:15
So and I reckon it would be very minimal weeks that he would have missed, right. So he buys a ticket. He has specific numbers. There are, you know, birth dates and things and special numbers to him. He's played those same numbers for that period of time. We've never won any money. We've, you know, we get like so, the reason this has come up. So you went down to cash
1:46
these or, you know, get his new ticket for Saturday just gone and they little thing. Oh, you've got some winnings and he didn't have his card on him and he had to come home and I don't know, get his card. Although it was their parent to an account. I don't even understand have a racing heart rate with you because he didn't know how much it was right. So he came home. He must be able to check it online. OK, actually, because he's registered. Maybe they paid the money into your account or something. I don't even know the details. So and it came out it comes straight inside. Come on,
2:17
it was like 12 bucks. Yeah, it's like the ticket. I don't even know the ticket cost. It would be more than $12.00 a week. I'm sure. It could cause health concerns driving home in such a frenzy. Surely person at the shocking to say you won 12 bucks, mate?
2:35
Well, I said to him, I said if I was any big amount they bells and whistles would have gone off and you wouldn't know or somebody from Tattslotto would have already rang you. I know, I think so, right, Because we've gone out now Saturday to Saturday charity right there.
2:51
They're not. But then if you're, you know, doing what we do right. So he buys tattslotto out of his fun money. So we have an account where we get you know, so much per fortnight. Do what you will with it. It is a different amount. So mines got to coverclothes. I've got a larger amount. Have you? I have got a little larger amount. But you know, and he's, he doesn't, he doesn't spend a lot his tattslotto and buys his lunch and coffees and stuff sometimes. Um, yeah. So anyway, he buys the tattslotto out of that so
3:26
I don't even know the exact amount he pays um, anyway, but $12.00 saved, even say it's twelve. Yeah, well, 15 bucks, I don't know anyway. Yeah, so I I don't know. But if you think over 32 years,
3:40
and I know it would have gone up, but it's all, you know, relative. You need a calculator. So say it’s 10 bucks. Let's do a round Number, $10 per week. Yeah. For a year, that's $520. Yeah. Times 30 years. Let's keep it simple. 30 * 520, $15,000. It would be at least, wouldn't it?
4:06
Oh well, that's the cost of entertainment. Well, it's a rush of driving home.
4:13
Look one day you might win big and then you won't be having this conversation, will you? Well, that's what is it.
4:20
I won't hold my breath like, but imagine what's interesting. Could've been a great overseas holiday. My dad, I grew up. My dad always has done. He's got his tatts card and Percy does it as well. My partner. So how common is it? I'd love to hear it in the show notes. Yeah. And you know, what are people's thoughts and views on it?
4:40
I feel like I don't live my life on luck. I, I, it, it comes back to that. I think every week when there's a big winner, he'll know who the big winner is, where they're from. But how do you even get that information?
4:55
Is there a section in the newspaper? I don't know. I don't know if you get the really big wins sometimes because when you follow it, then you get more excited. If it gets a real person, it could be me. The other thing that Percy started to do is I'm I'm going to name names, but LMCT like they do giveaways like where you can win a house or a car or a caravan or something massive. Have you seen those? No, and they're really popular. So I don't know if your chances are better in there, but that's another thing. He's added to his repertoire. Yes.
5:25
I think this is really interesting. So for me, the feeling I want to manage my destiny. I mean, great if you won. Yeah. It's like your personality. Whether you think that you're in control of your destiny or whether it's all luck and I just want to be in. It's got to be both, doesn't it? Just definitely got lucky in life. But I don't know. Anyway, yeah, it's a lot of money and I think
5:55
it would have been the last holiday or something, but no, anyway, he, he does it and I think it's fear. It's now fear if you didn't have a ticket and your numbers came up, right. Yeah, that's the problem when you play the same numbers. That's so interesting. I think it's more fear, yeah. What if it's a little bit like, yeah, my previous truth of like cancelling health insurance and then being stuck out. So you have it for all those years and then when you need it, it's gone. So it's like hedging your bets, like one
6:26
point in time, you're gonna need these things. Yes, yes. So the point I'd like to leave everyone with is,
um, yeah, is it serving you or not? You know, if you are a tattslotto player, why do you do it?
6:40
But yeah, just be mindful about that yeah You know, cause everything's a trade off. So if you're spending that money somewhere, it can't go somewhere else. Yeah. So anyway,
6:52
yeah, I don't know. I don't have a point of view on it. Yeah, it's their own. True. I know that. I don't know the answers to not much in this life, No. But my truth is that I know that I didn't order Uber Eats on Sunday morning at 7:30 AM and I don't have an Uber Eats account, OK. And oh, I was sitting, I
7:12
score the kids cricket on the Sunday morning. I'm sitting there with my little school card and it pops up on my phone because I get notifications when money is spent on my account. And yeah, an Uber Eats transaction went through
7:26
my account for $36. And I'm like, hmm, I just didn't do that. I don't have an Uber Eats account. And all the families right here, all the families are out here. My 17 year old son was at home. I did call him. And like, we can't get Uber Eats where we live. Like we live out of town. It's not possible. And he's like, no, so yeah, that's just my, it was a bit frustrating. So and I just put a lock on my card. So when I'm buying things like just unlock it at the point of sale and then lock it again. And I haven't called the bank yet.
7:57
Well, you should probably call the bank that's on my To Do List. Call the bank and I'll need to order a new card. Yeah. Yeah. I think that the reason why we don't is because we feel that inconvenience, right. And it's effort. You've gotta ring the bank, you know, you've gotta go through the process. You're going to send you a new card. But what I can say is in my experience, the banks process that pretty quick. I'm sure that I'm sure I'll get my money back. But yeah, that's right. The administration. Yeah. Well,
8:27
risk is there's more to come, isn't there? That's right. And yeah, well, it's funny cause that's got the lock on the account, then there were more like anything like, so if I've got a direct debit on that account, it's now declining, which is causing the problem. So I've got to sort this out quickly. Yeah.
8:43
But yes, there were some other transactions coming through, but they've all been declined. So they're not hitting on that. I can see the notification, but it's not hitting my account got so I haven't yes, I'm not sure how much like it. So I really feel like somebody is using this card and I did some Cyber Monday, Monday shopping. So I think it stemmed from that from me online, online shopping, online shopping from that account. Yeah, yeah, it it really is. I mean,
9:09
again, this could be a topic for another day. Cyber risk and cyber security is so high. I think everybody, I I don't know if you're one of the few that's never been hacked, you know, you know, that's, that's great luck. You know, I think your time is coming near just like tattslotto you're about to win. Yeah. It's just looking if you're not checking your accounts regularly, you absolutely need to. It's just everywhere, all of the time.
9:41
I think it's.. keep an eye on it. It's the the biggest risks and, and in this space also the laws and the regulations are, are being looked at and reviewed. And you know, of recent times, banks are starting to push back on whether they'll refund or not. And then that's what some of the review and the regulation is about because it's it's just
10:04
there's so many ways that people are being scammed. So yeah, please keep an eye on your account. And who orders uber eats for breakfast? Come on, people, I reckon a lot.
10:16
Didn't know the thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So today we wanna, we've gotta get very special guest. We have. Yeah. Kelly Bracegirdle is gonna be joining us today. Yeah. Kelly and I have been friends. We actually go to the gym together. But Kelly has ADHD and she is super passionate about raising awareness of how ADHD, you know, makes you feel.
10:47
Um, and you know, the more awareness that we have out there, we can be less ignorant and you know, and see it from somebody else's point of view. So we are very fortunate to have Kelly as a guest and we are going to obviously talk about her journey with money and how that's been for her. So yeah, it was a really fascinating conversation and we learned a lot from her. So we hope you do as well. Yep, Today we've got a special guest with us, Kelly Bracegirdle
11:17
and know I know Kelly from the gym and I've been really fortunate to have some awesome conversations with Kelly whilst we’re
11:25
lifting weights love that and Kelly has a a real passion about ADHD actually and getting her voice out there and actually being an advocate and to help people understand ADHD. We had good conversation actually once, and this is really why I thought Kelly for the podcast is that I was talking about ADHD and I I look, I don't like labels
11:56
on people very much. I believe we're all equal and we all bring something and labels can tend to put you in a box. That's my my view. But Kelly and maybe step in here challenged me on that. That I did that. I did. Labels, especially since I've been diagnosed. I find that labels on people help you advocate for yourself also.
12:29
Yeah. I find that labels also open up more opportunities for you as well. Hmm. And what's wrong with the label? I'm, you know, I'm kind of, you know, I'm Kelly who lives with ADHD and I'm neurodiverse, and, you know, I've gotta just kind of
12:50
adjust my world, I suppose. Yeah. And learn about it and find out about it, find your people and get the supports that you need and adjust your life. Of course. Of course. Yeah. And and that can be like on an hour to hour basis. It can be on a week to week basis,
13:11
yes. It's an interesting road that I travel on. Yeah. I mean, I've thought about the analogy of that because, you know, being women and the gender gap and particularly when we talk about money, the pay gap, I could definitely relate to that. And I'm definitely an advocate of enhancing policies for women to bring that equity.
13:33
You know, it's the gap, basically. So, yeah. And. And we've gotta talk about it, get it out there, Do it for something to change. Yeah, that's right. Until that isn't at the end, just pretend that everything's OK and everything everyone's doing. It doesn't equal playing field or whatever. Yeah, that's right. I get that. Yeah, I get that. I mean, don't get me wrong. If I was going for a job interview today, I don't even know whether I would tell them. You wouldn't be game.
14:03
Don't think so. Not to start off. Yeah. Because of the judgement that might course. Yeah, of course. Hmm. Not necessarily just judgement, but just misunderstanding. And a lot of people still have that idea of ADHD being a hyperactive little boy jumps all over the furniture and won't sit still. Whereas, you know, it's completely different. Yes, I know some really successful business people who have got ADHD and like they have the focus and then you know, the drive and the,
14:34
yeah, it's really, really interesting 'cause my mind beliefs and I, I don't know anything about it, like I haven't studied it or know anything, but my mind belief is ADHD people are very, very smart. Isn't funny. And good looking!
14:52
Haha. But that's my mind belief, you know, I isn't it interesting? Yeah. So it's like, it's like the subconscious bias that we come in with you anyway that we can't afford to moderate to. And that's like going in for a job, you know, interview. Like people are gonna have biases. And of course you can't, of course, regulate dances or whatever. Yeah, of course. And you just want to be taken at face value. We all want to be taken at face value, of course. And that's exactly how it should be. And there shouldn't be discrimination. So there's no need to disclose things like that anyway.
15:23
of course, absolutely. There is, of course, Yeah. I've been discriminated against myself sometimes.
15:37
I think there's been, there's been a lifetime of oh, surely I can't do that. Ah, Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. This is Apollo our little dog. Even Apollo has and opinion as well. That's right, yes. So a lifetime of trying to mask what's really going on inside and observing what other people are doing and saying around me and trying to be that.
16:15
And when I can't be that, then, you know, self doubt. Yeah. Yeah, yes. So you've always had that, but you've only been diagnosed recently. Is that right? Yes. But you feel like two years. Yeah. So but you feel like it's been something that you've had throughout your whole life. Course. Yeah. Of course. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then did it get worse at a particular time or more? I should say worse because that's a bad word. You know what I mean? Like a negative word. These. Is it hard
16:45
like even like not bring this language into it? You could say, OK, more heightened, Yes, yes. During covid, Yeah. When I looked around me and other people seemed to be quite content with being at home and, you know,
17:09
schooling and, you know, there were they were saying, you know, this is great, we could do this forever. And all of my support networks, which I had relied upon so heavily, weren't there anymore because my husband was stuck overseas for work and everyone else around me were we were all in the same boat because was locked down and everyone was else was going through their own stuff in their own way. And yeah, I was just
17:39
kind of questioning why aren't I coping as well as everybody else seems to. Yeah. Interesting. Hmm. And there were a few people around me who were also even newly diagnosed or in the process of being diagnosed around that same time. And I just got curious and found a site and got some testing and here we are. Hmm. And did that process take a long time?
18:12
It didn't. But there is a lot of different components to the testing. So it's not as simple as, you know, you fill out a form and gets fed into a computer kind of thing. Yeah, yes, yeah, you're 98% you
18:32
and you get a gold medal. Yeah. So family members were given questionnaires. I had to fill out a lot of questionnaires. I had to do a lot of kind of testing and whatever. And it was kind of more the 360 kind of book, I suppose. And then the site goes away with all of the information and puts it all together and it comes back with
18:58
‘ADHD Combined’. I have combined with combined. I know, I know. Like a cocktail? Not like that. Hyperactivity. Yes, and the word has just gone from my mind and the other thing, otherwise the other one, it'll come back to the other one,
19:26
I'm sure. Maybe we can come back to that. Yeah, that's right. We'll put it in the show notes or something like that. Like other types. Yeah. The combination. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So let's I'd love to bring the conversation back around for like money management for you. Ohhhhh yeah. Oht triggering. And like, could you tell us a bit about your journey with money and how do you think ADHD is played a part in your money life?
19:52
I always felt like in high school I was good at maths, yeah. But not all the time. I think there were certainly areas that I really enjoyed. And don't ask me what parts of maths because I can't remember the good, the good parts. But I think
20:17
had it been taught to me in a different way and had I been more vocal about I'm not really kind of, I've understood up until this point and whatever, I guess had I known back then what was going on with me, I could have, you know, there could have been better strategies kind of put in place and it could have been completely different. Yeah. And so in terms of money,
20:45
I grew up in a household where we didn't have a lot of money. And so when I finished high school, all I wanted to do was make my own money. Yeah, I didn't think I was good enough to go on further education.
21:05
I didn't think I was capable at the time. All I wanted to do was make my own money. So I went out and worked. And managing my own money at the time seemed pretty simple, I suppose. Yeah, I was living at home. The money would come in
21:24
and, you know, those days we deal with cash a lot more. Yeah. And I'm. I'm quite a visual person. And so you're not having your piles. Yeah. Cash. Yeah. In front of you. Really kind of worked. Helped me. Yep. This is for that. I can spend this. This is for saving. Absolutely. I mean, don't get me wrong, I got into trouble. Yeah. They gave me a MYER card, you know, I had MYER card debt, all that. Yeah, yes. Not really kind of understanding
21:55
at the time, you know, the interest would gets piled on and whatever. But when my then boyfriend and her husband got together, we moved overseas, then we moved to the UK, and then it was quite hard to get a bank account.
22:17
And so when we both started work, he found it easier. He's got a British passport, he found it easier. And so he got the bank account. And then we just kind of shared everything from there. And that's kind of been our history. Yeah. And has that worked well like that method? I would say it could have been more successful had I
22:45
maybe being more involved. I think just organically over the years it's just been all of our money goes here and then he tends to kind of, I know it just sounds really 1950. No, it's really it's, it's the most common thing,
23:03
but not that it's, you know, I'm the man and I take care of the money. It's just the way it's happened. There are, there are areas of our life that I take care of. He takes care of this area and
23:16
and is it feel good for you to like kind of let go of that? No interesting because only recorded another podcast on interdependence and independence with money in a relationship, right. And about these feelings coming up. So yes, feeling like I, you know, fully part or equal in making the money decisions or how it's being managed. Yes, and it's is it related to self-esteem? There's a lot of shame, shame and embarrassment.
23:47
And, you know, it goes back to that. Well, you know, maybe I'm not good enough and, and whatever. And you know, I would love to be more involved, but how and where do we start? And you know, and sometimes life is just so busy that it's just easier for him to do it. I don't know. We're changing Internet providers and he'll just go and do it and then that's it.
24:15
The ‘ADHD tax’ Kelly, what is this thing? Thanks for asking. It's where money gets wasted unintentionally. So as an example, the dopamine hit. You buy things online, the clothing as an example. I've done this loads of times. You buy some stuff online, it gets delivered to the house.
24:44
For starters you put off opening up the package because what if it doesn't fit? What if I'm really disappointed when you open up the package and then you try it on and it doesn't fit and then it's actually returning it physically returning it either to the store or then having to take it back yet to be posted back.
25:05
That sometimes doesn't happen. And then the clothes sit there and then you waste the money. It's going grocery shopping and food waste, so food goes off in the fridge. It happens so often and it makes me feel sick when it happens. Especially meat.
25:27
And then you think, ohe, I've got that and I've gotta use it. And then it's past its use by date and it's just not edible anymore. Forgetting to cancel subscriptions. You sign up to subscriptions and suddenly you've got all of the Netflix’s and everything. Yes,
25:48
and some of those gets like you sign up in the first three months of free and you give your credit card details and whatever and then you don't cancel and before you know it you're six months down the track. Yeah. And then when you Add all of those up, how much are actually spending per month on your subscriptions? So you need a little fairy coming in behind you just doing all the clean up. So what do you do? You so you're obviously very aware of that. Do you still do that? Yes or yes. You have little you know what tips
26:19
can you provide? Has anything any strategies worked? Yeah, yeah, I've actually started. I do a lot of when I'm shopping online. I put a lot of things in my basket and then I leave it there for a couple of days, just open. Hmm.
26:39
If I really still want some stuff, I'll still have the feeling about it when I go back into it. Yeah. So you. Yeah. Buy some time. Yes. With one time, Yep. Rather than clicking Buy Buy Buy. Do you reckon less online shopping and more going into stores
26:59
potentially? Hmm. I know there's so much more choice online. There is. And we've just been through Black Friday sales. Yeah. And you know, everyone's, all those companies, they're pressuring you. Buy now, buy now. And it is actually smarter, too. Yeah. Buy it 25% off. Yes. We need the thing. Yeah. Yeah. And I bought a couple of things, but
27:26
I did pretty good. I did pretty well. That's good. Yeah. Yeah. So the tip that we give here that coming back to your bank account structures, yes, is to have that spending account where Kelly can spend whatever is in that like whatever she wants to buy, whatever you want anytime without any judgement. That is your money to do whatever you please. So if you do that and don't use the thing and even like because with me, like I've had, you know, had to put controls in place for my spending.
27:56
And so like if the groceries, you know, the, if the cart comes to 500, but I've only got 300, then that's where operating off more accounts puts those measures in place to. And even though longs for counts feel like more complicated, a lot of the time, it can actually be simpler because it doesn't mean you have to have access and different things for all different cars and only one or two accounts you access. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. But yes, majority of the time, regular ADHD tax, yeah, totally. Yeah, yeah.
28:31
What’s the one thing that you would change. And the only way I could describe it is the feeling. Yeah, yes. OK. So that then you need to know the process of how to change the feeling so I can bring it back to what I was saying. Of course it's doing a process in a very different way,
28:51
starting get on the same page about goals and then work through how we're going to achieve that understanding our total position. And our total position is not just income minus expenses, it's your net asset position, income, you know, minus liabilities, how much that's going to give you, how much you need and then what's the gap? It's just very practical and boring, but and it's not, doesn't have to be complicated at all.
29:19
Yeah, just stop just where you're at and your goals. Something to think about. There's a lot to think about. And I will cause that fear. It's the yeah, fear that causes the feeling. Yes. And, and once you know fact and you feel like you've got your vision, the fear goes away because you're dealing with reality. You're making decisions not out of fear, out of reality.
29:54
And sometimes reality isn’t awesome though. It's a confronting topic. It can be shitty. Isn't it? Yes. But it will take that fear away and that feeling because you're dealing with facts and you can make good, rational decisions. The problem is that we're not used to talking about it. Yeah. These are not the type of conversations that we used to having, even with our partners properly. Yes. And we get it's our brain again, like taking us down the usual route where we have to kind of go stop. Why do I feel like this? That feeling is the main indicator.
30:26
Yeah, that fear is huge. And So what is it? And so we've got to address it. What is it? What is it? That's right. That's why Mel and I started the Money Collective to uplift financial wellbeing, financial wellbeing, how you feel, How you feel.
30:41
It's also being able to have that conversation in a safe space, definitely without judgement. Totally. Because we were a bit like, you know, the stigma and the concerns. We're talking about ADHD or women. It's the same thing with money. We want to keep those stigmas have to be broken down. It's not related to who we are as a human being. Yeah. Yeah. It's got nothing to do with it. Yeah,
31:10
it's got lots to do with how we feel every day in our life, of course. Yeah. But something else that comes with that fear is because I just was just thinking about our office at home. Hmm ADHD people generally have piles of things. We have a lot of unopened mail. A lot, and I'll start a pile of where the things kind of go,
31:42
and then if I need to refer to it, it's like I know exactly what pile that seems. So a bit more order. So you like the order, is that what you mean? Absolutely. Absolutely. Things need to look nice and be clear. Hmm, I can't do that though. Would you like it to be around you like that? Yes. So when I go shopping, as an example, I don't go to Op shops
32:12
because they’re not as clean, nice lines, sizes, you know, all of that, whatever, all of the nice colours together during sale time. I hate shopping during sale time. You’ve got to dig through stuff. Yeah. Yeah. OK. Yeah it's not as clean, is it? It's yeah, it's more busy, yes. Straight, long, yes. Yeah. And also things like,
32:37
I don't know, airports don't sit up for neurodiverse people. I want to be in the lounge where I can sit quietly. And that's not because I want the nice posh things. It's just I want that space. Yeah. Which is better for my brain
32:56
because otherwise it's masking all the time. Oh airports are the worst because it's so busy and it's so crowded and announcements all the time and people running everywhere and just to kind of go to that. Yeah, quiet space. Yeah. So part of our program, part of setting up your banking structure is one of the pieces that we do. And. And maybe that is why when we say we do coach a few ADHD
33:27
women and it worked because everybody's system doesn't have to be the same. And it's even though we we do suggest tracking on a spreadsheet. I know that might trigger you, but it counts, can be more automated. But it's almost like an envelope system that you said you used to have. Yeah. Cause I feel like that is a problem that we've lost that visual feel of money. So if I had a massive white board. Yeah. On my wall. So rather than going into a spreadsheet,
33:57
if I could just like, be visual, umm, write stuff on the wall, whatever it is. Yeah, I don't know, maybe that'll work better for me. Yeah, it's for order and the clutter and the clarity and the serendipity where ADHD how this plays into it. Like because we've got a few women clients, we've got ADHD and we're actually very intrigued by it because they seem to like the systems that we provide around financial wellbeing and great. Yeah. How the money comes in having a system of where to put the money like your envelope system or your the digital version of your own. That's right. And, and knowing what you want
34:36
do being very clear about your goals and then having a system in place that's automated so that you know what's where the money is going. Do you think having better systems would give you more confidence? We have provided a few different methods over the years of budgeting. Hmm. We even paid someone years ago who came in and, you know, goes through everywhere that our money goes to. And there's shame in that as well, and embarrassment. And even when you don't know. And then you find out, yeah,
35:19
and he had this kind of system set up and everything that you spend, you put into. I can't remember what it was with a spreadsheet or it wasn't that back then. I think the kids were really young and I hated it. Yeah, I hated it with a passion because it was something else that I had to think about doing. Yes. Yeah, um, and also I felt judged around where the money went, but I was also judging myself and I hated that. Hmm. So
35:58
I think that's a system that didn’t work for me for quite a few reasons. But this was back before, you know, well before I was diagnosed. What system do you have at the moment? No system. And does that make you feel good? No, it doesn't. The system is I go through stages of spending on things that, you know, could I live without? Yeah probably. But I also am very, very conscious of
36:36
spending too much. You know, I do look at discounts in the supermarket, all that kind of business, you know. Yeah. It's not like I just put money off against the wall kind of thing. Yeah, I'm very conscious of all that kind of stuff. I just try and spend less as opposed to I don't know how much you spent. And that's probably on both sides. Yes, both Dale and myself, Right. Yeah. But I just know that when I go to the supermarket and I see the coffee that we drink and it's not unsafe. I don't know.
37:06
I'm not going to buy it because I refused to. You're right. So you're really ohg around that Very. Because, you know, we're being ripped off. How come last week that was half price and now you want me to pay the price? I'm not gonna pay that. Yeah, right. And it's also been big a bit, you know, stubborn. Yeah, just not fair. Like social justice, OK? Just not fair. I'm hearing in this conversation this is not really about ADHD. Not at all. This is just so many things like everything that you just said
37:37
is like if your money story, like how you grew up, where you started, Yeah, your money personality, how you behave and how you feel with money, the normal things, how you feel about shame. We're not knowing where money goes or how much is being sent here is normal. This isn't got nothing to do with having ADHD. So like I would hope to like like at least leave you with that advice that it's not like this is completely normal and human like, OK, everybody feels feels right. And in fact, I feel
38:07
so similar to all of that. And it's why we started The Money Collective because of those feelings. They are just normal. Sure. And like, your husband sounds like he's probably got the same similar feelings or, you know, in a different way. We all have that. I'm completely normal. I love it completely. Whatever normal is. Yeah. Yeah, That's right. And these numbers and things like that don't even matter, like how much, you know, so long as we're living great lives at the end of the day. Of course. Yeah. And we record it in the way that we need to. Absolutely.
38:38
So Kelly, I was wondering a little bit too like about this journey that you've had in the last couple of years since you've been diagnosed and like maybe what some of your current money goals are or family goals are for the family and what you guys are heading towards. And I am asking lots of questions in one go here, but are you currently working? Yes, I am. Yes. I work in sales, so I work in school uniforms at the moment, yes.
39:07
I work casual hours, yes. And so my income is quite low. Yeah. But it is actually a job that has been serving me very well because I go to work, I do my job, I enjoy what I do, and then I go home and there's no kind of extra pressure around my job. Yeah. So you can focus on the family and whatever you whatever your other priorities,
39:38
are, re-grouping all that kind of stuff, resting and so and have you had to factor resting in more?, Absolutely. That self-care being very like listening to your body. Yes. I think this is something I've had to learn in the last couple of years too and go right. Well, yeah, just saying no, she the body. Yeah, you know, of course, Yeah, of course. So a lot of people see ADHD as an excuse to be lazy. Ah, ah, yes. Because we procrastinate a lot. And
40:16
I at the end of a really busy week, my way of regrouping is I say I, I'm taking to my bed. Yeah. Because during COVID, I spend a lot of time sitting in bed and just watching. Yeah, you know, Netflix or whatever. But that is my way of just regrouping, losing myself in a TV show or whatever it is and just kind of shutting out the outside world. Yeah, yeah. And I look at different
40:48
scenarios throughout my life. You know, we moved to Sydney for a couple of years and when we were moving back we had to do a lot. So Dale's work packed and moved us there and we had to pack ourselves to come home. And I went through spurts of, you know,
41:09
I could just go, go gung ho and pack some boxes and then I could go three or four days where I just could not do anything and just had to take the couch or whatever. And just so mass avoidance, basically. When you're going to gung ho, is it in your brain? Is your brain saying go, go, go, go, go And like you are over like a lots of thought pattern happening? How does it go like when you're in that mode, how does that feel for you?
41:39
I wouldn't say it's in the mind. It's probably more in the body for me. I just have to get to. It's like a burst of energy. And one thing that ADHD people don't have a lot of or sometimes don't have any, it's the dopamine hit, OK. And so when you hear of ADHD people spending a lot of money, it's that kind of dopamine hit. Always searching for that dopamine hit just to kind of feel up. Yes,
42:09
instead of going down into so she'll avoid going to down or just because you want to. It's like it's just searching for that up the next thing, the next thing. I think so, yeah, I think so. I wouldn't say that. I wouldn't say that you're avoiding
42:27
being down. Yep. Because I always think that we're probably down there anyways. Yeah, like that's more normal. Yes, that's, but dopamine hit can come in a lot of different ways. It's not necessarily going shopping or spending money or whatever. It could be your favourite food. Yes, Yeah.
42:49
It could be, you know, talking to a person that you really like. Could be listening to a song that could be, you know, it even kind of presents as, you know, when you're younger, you're picking on your yes, and you're on your sibling and you get a raise out of them. It's like, oh, bit of a dopamine hit. So actually feels good in your body, I guess. So. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And it kind of like searching. And it's like, I'm looking at you naturally looking for that next thing.
43:18
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you feel like you can channel that. Like, I'm just saying if you had a project or is that really hard to do because it comes and goes. Oh, I wish, you know, if there was a drink, if there was, I don't know, whatever it is. Do you like a party? Sometimes I think I'm, what do they call it? Like an introverted extrovert. Hmm, you gotta be in the mood when you're ready to party and go to party. If not, just leave me alone.
43:53
But if you ask my friends, they would see me as yeah, you're the party animal, you're the good time, Kel rah rah. But recently I've been really good. Like it just gets to a point in the night I'm like, right, I'm done, I'm going home. Hmm. Yeah, yeah. Anything past 9:00 at night. Yeah, I know, right? I think I'd love to sit on the couch, that's all. That’s also normal. So, um, yeah. But that is that comes with a hell of a lot of masking,
44:34
right? I think when you start feeling like that, like you can like, Oh no, no, you spend your life masking. How do you mask? I'm masking now, Yeah. Like I had to stop yourself doing something or saying something? I don't think it's stopping myself from doing something. It's just kind of a natural reaction. It is a moderate yourself to fit in. It's yes, because the world isn't set up and you're a divergent people.
45:11
I wish I was able to. I wouldn't say understand money more or understand money better, but had I been taught differently, I think I would have a different approach to money. Because my natural reaction to something that I've never really understood is I must be really kind of, you know, dumb in this area or something bad with money. Why don't I understand it?
45:54
You know, I'm not as smart as other people, so I will withdraw. So if you didn't have that mind belief and you were given more courage or more, yes, you know, I can do more strategies. Well, different strategies, not more or less engaged, of course. And this has got nothing to do with ADHD
46:15
actually most of what we've heard, just to, you know, bring that back together. It's not specific ADHD. It's the feelings that many, many of us have, of course, probably most. So fascinating to hear. But one thing about people with ADHD or neurodiverse people, people that who say to us just like that, Ah, that sounds really common, I reckon I’m a bit ADHD, that sounds really normal for people who are neurodiverse those feelings are
46:50
times 100. OK, yes, yeah, like they're really high. Get that feeling. Yes. And comments like that and that's not having a go. No, that's really helpful. But the comments like that then kind of diminish, Yeah. Like it should be easy, like there's a quick fix, but it's like not yes, yeah. So they diminish, you know, what challenges that a neurodiverse person has. Sorry, Yeah. No, no, no,
47:23
didn't part, isn't it? Yeah, course that's the highest cause to us it that's just seems like how we feel. Yeah, yeah. But then the feelings are times 100
47:33
and people who say, oh, you all are being cut, you know, all being autistic, aren't we? It's like, no, no, no. Do you know what it's like to kind of live? Is not a person who watches into this world? Of course, of course, everything, everything is harder for neurodiverse person. Everything because the world wasn't set up for neurodiversity.
47:57
So hearing that it's kind of normal is good. But it's like, don't you know how hard it is for me? Yeah. Yeah. And no, we don't know if we have no idea. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. So there you go.
48:11
There you go. Yeah. So maybe what I've learned out of this is to keep listening, you know, keep listening to to people with ADHD learn, understand, yes, yes. What else can I do? See everything, everything. Yeah of course really try and understand a little bit more of that feeling cause we've all got that capacity So hopefully yes so feel like I can feel that energy, you know what I mean? Like, and open up to that and know that it's harder. And if you've got people in the workplace who are neurodiverse, just a bit of flexibility and if
48:51
they come to you and they say, do you know what? I'm most productive at 7:30 in the morning, and you're gonna get the best work out of me then. So let me come to the office then or let me start work then. And by 2:00, I'm gonna be spent. This is the future of where we've got to get to get equity for everybody. Yeah. And that's where we just don't have that flexibility in our current systems.
49:17
It's true, it's true. So bit more flexibility, a bit more empathy and more understanding. We're scared of that change too, because our systems are very rigid. So like, it took something like COVID to
49:32
pull some of it down. Yes. And then there's that pull to come back into that safe space again where everybody, you know, everybody. Yep. We're people generally feel safe. Yeah. But we need to be brave enough to stay outside of it. But also, I think, sorry, I interrupted you because that's also another thing that ADHD people do.
49:56
Something comes to the mind. It's like you've got to throw yourself in there. And now I can't remember what I was going to do. No, I was, I was going to say that, you know, if you do have a new diverse person in your workplace, learn about their condition. Hmm. Um, there was a lot of emphasis and a lot of pressure on, you know, not just neurodiverse people, people who live with the disability to teach others about their disability.
50:28
Whereas it should be the other way around is that I think you can kind of meet halfway. So rather than me being the person going into a workplace and teaching you what it is to live as a middle aged woman with ADHD, go away and Google a bit of it and learn some more about it and just say, you know what? I read this and I did this, and it just kind of makes you feel,
50:55
I don't know, more appreciated, more heard. You know, do your own Googles. Yeah. I think your own research. Yeah. This massive epiphany that ADHD is about you and it's not about me. Like, it's about how you feel,
51:15
and it's got nothing to do about why our perspective is at all on it. Hmm. And to have that space, we just gotta have way more space for people to be who they are. Yeah. Gosh, my mind is so small. Thank you so much for coming along today.
51:33
Your mind isn't small. Oh, it's still new for me. I’ve got so much room for growth like minds have the capacity for so much and we get used to using certain conditions that we do and we can and we
51:50
Chinese yeah, we're an asset as well. And you know there are struggles, but we're an asset of course. Any workplace, yes yeah, well, I think in the fight or flight scenario, yeah. Who would I want in a you know, fights and I I want somebody that we are great problems solvers. Yeah, great problem solving. Yeah,
52:14
yeah, got it Got a crisis. Bring me in. Call Kelly. Yeah girl. Yes, good to know. But then I just need to have a lay down afterwards.
52:27
Yeah. Thank you so much for opening my mind today. Thanks for having me. Thanks for coming. And yeah, I've learned a lot.
Now we have a question for the day. And in the work that we do, the most common thing that we're hearing at the moment is fixed rate expiry. And we have talked about this in different lenses in past podcasts, but
52:52
the question today is what do I do if my fixed rate is about to expire? Um, where do you start? Where do you start?
53:02
So the first thing I would want to know is if it's going to expire, what happens? What interest rate am I going to get and what will my new repayments be and what does that mean to my life? So in an ideal world you would want to be very prepared for this because when we take out a fixed rate, for example, in this environment, ideally you've done the pre work, you know, so you've got a two year fixed rate, you've known for two years that it's going to expire and for the last 12 months we've been rising interest rates. So the quicker that you can understand
53:34
the new repayments will be given the current environment, the that's when you can start planning and preparing and making decisions about what you're going to do. Yeah, definitely. The very first thing I think to do is understand what your repayment is going to be with your current bank. So they would have sent you a letter or been in contact if it's nearing. If it's not,
54:00
if you can, depending on how early you're doing your planning, if it's way early, then you might not be able to get that information from your bank. So I would recommend talking to your, you know, your broker or the bank or you know, just working out what your repayment would be on approximately 6 1/2 percent would be my recommendation and see what that new repayment could look like. It might not be exact, but it'll give you a good guide.
54:31
And then plug that into your spending plan. See where that leaves you with money left over or not. And then you know, make adjustments along the way to start lease. Then that'll take the fear away. You'll have a picture and then you need to review your loan with an expert and see what else is out there and how
55:01
that compares. That's right. And, you know, is it worth refinancing? That's right. I'm finding at the moment that most customers can get a competitive rate with their current lender. And that in most cases is a really good option for people because it's, you know, we're in an environment where things are a bit tight and it can be hard to refinance. So definitely taking those steps with the bank. When my fixed rate came off a few months ago, it took me a while to negotiate with my bank because I did want to stay there. And you have to be a bit of a dog and a bone.
55:31
So that's a follow up on a previous truth in a previous. It's that really took me two months to do, which is unusual. It doesn't usually it's not usually that hard, but sometimes you gotta do you need to do to make sure that your lenders looking after you. But I'm finding your most instances it's quite easy for people to call the their bank and negotiate a good rate. If their banks not automatically giving them a great rate anyway. Yeah, when I say great, everything's relative. Yeah, today's two in today's,
56:01
Yeah. Even historically, you know, 6% aren't, you know, that bad? We just got a bit carried away the last few years with these low interest rates. Yeah, Yeah, that's right. Because there's cost to refinance as well. So yeah, it's about $1000 - $1200 dollars roughly, depending on, you know, individual banks discharge costs and new costs are set up. So it does range a little bit. That's it. But if you've been taken for a ride, then you absolutely need to talk to a mortgage broker. So call The Money Collective. Yeah, please.
56:32
And coming back to what you're saying, you know if it is within that .25 - .3, it's all relative. So it depends on your loan balance. So you actually need to work out, you know, what the savings is going to, you know, is going to be and then add that
56:50
money on to refinance. Is it worthwhile or not? So it does take a little bit of research, talk to an expert, do the sums, do the calculations, but don't just think always that refinancing is the way to go. It might be and you know, you might consider other things too. Whether or not you like your bank system, after working with people for lots and lots of time, you see those basic needs become really important. And you know, things like an online
57:20
platform. So how good is the app? How good is the Internet banking? Because some people really, you know, see that as really, really important. Other people might see as service as really, really important. So where you rank those things also depends and plays into your decision whether or not you should refinance or not, because some different banks definitely are very different and have points of difference in all those places. So understanding actually what you're wanting bank beyond the rate is really, really important to work through. As I said for me, they
58:00
when we suggest banks to people, we really look into those, you know, important needs that people are looking for. So and you can hear that like you know, if you're really, you can get really every time you have to log on to the Internet banking, it's so hard to do BPAY or transfer money or you know, I don't know all the things and you wanna really seamless online platform. Then there's different banks that you would go to for that versus if you just want the cheapest rate and you don't care, that's different banks again.
58:30
Or do you really want a bank where you can walk into a branch if you've got a problem? You know, they are becoming few and far between, but they still exist. But if that's really important to you or you really don't care about that, you know, so it can be a name you hadn't haven't heard of or one you have, How does that make you feel? What, what are the really important things that you want in your bank? So yeah, we'll talk more about Variable and Fixed
59:00
on another podcast. Yeah. And if it's all sounding all confusing, then just reach out and get the expert in your pocket that you need. Yeah, goodbye. See you next time. See you
59:15
At The Money Collective we provide financial wellbeing, premium coaching, mortgage broking and workplace financial wellbeing programs which we couldn't do without the seamless support of our fabulous team. If you'd like to find out more, head to themoneycollective.com.au or our socials to take action and engage our services. In our Facebook group join the conversation and help us break down the taboo around money. All content in this podcast is for educational purposes only and is generally nature. For tailored personal advice, please seek out a professional.
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Podcast by:
MEL PEARCE & DARLENE NEU
Co-Founders, Financial Wellbeing Coaches and Mortgage Brokers
The Money Collective
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