Season 2 Episode 2: Workplace gender equality
IN THIS EPISODE
Mel discusses receiving a fine for driving an unregistered vehicle and the challenges of navigating the payment system. Darlene shares insights on managing her self-managed super fund, emphasizing the need for careful monitoring. The hosts explore the gender pay gap in Australian workplaces and its impact on career choices. They also discuss women's roles in the household, career breaks, and the impact of the cost of living on households. The episode concludes with having an exit strategy after a relationship breakdown and mentions the new online financial wellbeing course.
RESOURCES IN THIS EPISODE
WGEA website: https://www.wgea.gov.au/
WGEA Gender Pay Gaps Report Snapshot: https://www.wgea.gov.au/publications/employer-gender-pay-gaps-snapshot
More reports and resources: https://www.themoneycollective.com.au/resources
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0:00
Welcome to the Money Collective Podcast. We're here to uplift your financial wellbeing. Your hosts are me, Mel Pearce, and Darlene Neu. We are the cofounders of The Money Collective and together we have over 50 years of finance and banking experience. We provide the tools, information and guidance to better understand your money and feel confident making money decisions.
0:21
Welcome back to our podcast are we are so glad to be chatting all things financial wellbeing today. And yeah, I don't know we always start with a bit of a truth. Yeah, I might go first. Yeah you go self nominate. OK, great. Oh sounds bad. Some truths can be good, you know. Sure this one isn't so great. So I have got a 2 1/2
0:52
throw car, the Subaru XV. Quite like it actually. So it's very nice looking how I like driving it around. It suits my needs very well. Hmm. And because I like going on like little bushwalks, so little bit you know, all wheel drive you gets me around but then I don't like a big car. So it's good to go to sort of in between works. It really is. Yeah. Good. Anyway, happy days. Except. Except, except we record these podcasts at your house.
1:23
Yep, this is Darlene’s front room. And we do a lot of recording for lots of different things actually. So we also have an online program, so we do lots of videos, recordings and for different purposes all the time. And I was driving here a few weeks ago and you've got a lovely speed camera set up somewhere close by. We've got a school at like a long road. It was a long road and it's near a school.
1:54
They've got 40 and 50K zones alright. Hmm. And I've been caught there many in the 50K zone and I was doing whatever it is just over the speed limit like 55/56 or something like that. Yeah, got the speeding fine. But what happened is that triggered a rego check on my car
2:16
and my car wasn't registered, so that was so much fun. I had been driving it around, it was meant to be registered like 8 months ago, something like that. And somebody else said to me, because I stopped at a petrol, like to see the servo filling up
2:36
a couple of months ago and they go look, your car has been flagged, they've got cameras and they do rego checks and they run, it was like a community service.
2:44
The service desk at the service station and they're like we think your cars not registered and I'm like Oh my God. So this is a pre warning that I got. Yes. And I had my daughter in the car and I said Tilly can you jump on the Vic Roads website and do a retro check on my car? Yes.
2:59
And anyway, it didn't come up. And I think I've done this a few times because I my number plate was
3:05
******. Why? And in my brain, that rego is *****. Why? I'm. Yeah, 40 years old. I turned 40. Right? I Yeah. And that's how I remember my number plate. Turns out that is not my number plate. Got a letter and a number on it. Like the zero in the 40 is not a zero, it's an it's an O No. So you did the rego check incorrectly. So anyway, she's going ‘Mum, that's not working’.
3:36
I've done it myself a few times. I'm like, oh, that just must be an error. I'm sure I've paid my rego
3:42
because it. Anyway, that is where I ended up And then so it turns out I did not register my car at all. I didn't pay the registration and then I came to work and I told you and cause I've got a $900 fine. Oh my gosh. And my car is actually not registered. I can't drive it. That's right. So you know this whole exercise. Anyway talk about what happened next. The process of getting it back on the road. Yeah. So my car ended up going so long not only was it
4:13
like I had an expired. It was fully expired, unregistered. My car was not allowed to be driven on the road. So I gotta find for that $952.00 and feel like I I'll grab a calculator and I'm just gonna do it. Keep adding these up. So the fine is 952. Yeah. And then I had to go to get a new roadworthy on the car. Right. A roadworthy that costs $395. Yep, that was funny. And I
4:44
took my car in there and I'm thinking, please, you know, it's two years old. I've got it all serviced. Don't do anything wrong with it. I'm driving in and a stone hits the windshield. What are the odds. Yeah. And. And he goes, he goes, Cars, fine. You just had a chip in the windscreen. I'm like, OK, so 395 for that. That was a fun day. But on that day I had to get a permit to drive my car to the mechanic And that cost $50 or $60. Let's say 50. Yeah, 50 bucks. Just drive it for the drive and get it to the roadworthy centre. Yeah. And Mel's being
5:15
so, we have a work car. So Mel’s been driving that. Otherwise, Can you imagine what that cost was to get a permit everyday. Oh my God, you could get the roadworthy and get back to victory. Would have been terrible because the process is taking me two weeks at least. Yeah, I mean 50 bucks for 14 days. Lucky, But I don't know. You. Maybe. I don't know. Maybe there's a different rate. Maybe however long you need, could you put the duration? I have no idea what that is. Yes. So then you have to go back to Vic Roads. But then I had to go back into reregister the car, which was $820, which is just normal registration. So I had to have paid that anyway. Yeah. And then there was something else. I had to buy new number plates. Yeah.
6:00
OK. So I went in and I said, can I just keep my old number plates? You know, the one I'm 41. Yeah. I was happy with those. And they said, no, they belonged to Vic Roads. And I said, well, can Vic Roads. please reissue them to me. No, you must destroy those number plates. That's very triggering. So and then I had that options like that. I got the upsell on. Would you like this slim line black
6:26
or would you like personalised plates? I'm like mate, I’ll just have those blue ones. They're fine. And that was another 50 odd bucks, That was 50 for that. Yep. So what did that have? Speeding fine. OHP, they're speeding fine. OK, so this is another issue. The car is registered in a company. That's why you didn't get the renewal right?
6:47
The renewal, while I do not. So this is a whole nother part of the story, right? Because I've been talking to people and they say they get text message renewals. I didn't get anything. Not one reminder to say, hey lady, you're driving. Your car is not registered. No red big nothing in the post. No emails not a text message. 0 reminder from Vic roads which I had out with them and they said to me in the Vic Rd centre. Oh we don't actually need to issue you anything. It's your responsibility to get the car. Have the car driver
7:18
and it was a courtesy on us to let you know to even advise in the 1st place that you had a registration renewal coming up. I feel like a bit of a money generator for them, doesn't it? It does, yeah, because we don't have the sticker in the corner anyway. I'm. I feel like I'm making excuses, but I feel like the system makes you feel like
7:37
you are. The system isn't any. Why? The way that? And we condition to wait for a bill to pay it, right? Unless we set something up on direct debits. I couldn't also set up a direct debit. Yeah, so my company. You need to get a company. This is for anybody who owns the company who has a car registered to a company. You can open a Vic Roads online account. I've tried this, no joke, at least four times, including going into the service centre myself and asking Vic Roads to set it up
8:08
for me. Yeah, and then again last week when I re registered the car they said oh this is a little bit unusual, Can't help. I've tried it again for you and you should hear something back in about 10 days. They couldn't set it up an automatic direct debit for me either in person and that still hasn't been resolved.
8:27
Yeah. So that is the system, that the system is a bit broken, right? Or you know not to advise just because it's in a company name not to give you reminders or
8:38
doesn't seem right. There should be a better system to alert you of not paying or sending you when the bills due. We are conditioned that way I suppose. I don't know. I feel like saying what are you gonna do to make sure it doesn't happen again. Oht no put a massive reminder in my calendar Yeah like yeah for this time next year now and it does did make us. We do also have a work vehicle in the company name and my car is also in a company name. The first thing I did was get online and make sure that
9:09
we've got a big group calendar, invite calendar invites to make sure that we remember to register cars and company vehicles if they're not advising us. So certainly if you have any company vehicles, just make sure they're registered. The math is nearly $15/14 hundred. Did you put the cut? Didn't put those speed fine in yet? I did not. No because that was your question. I did, sorry. And so because the cars registered to a company, you get them massive. You get a big speeding fine because you don't have a driver. So it's like $3000 you’ve got to nominate a driver
9:39
and I was like 2 kilometres over feed limit. Yeah, lovely Ohpa, 2 kilometres, 2 ohm for takeaways. It's big play here. But that was like $245 and say what's $1,702? Yes, all that. And what comes to mind then? Cause where do you find that money? You know like does that come out of your emergency fund or. Because we're a it's not right, it's not. So, you know, it is
10:10
example of emergencies that happen, you know, all the time, things that happen outside of what we think is going to happen. Yes, a lot. So the other thing that when this happened, I felt like a real dumb, dumb dummy person, like, especially in the family at home, and I was like, really take that on your shoulders. Well, that's right. But it played out quite well. It wasn't too bad. And like, there's been a couple of snide remarks about, oh, you haven't paid, you didn't pay rego Mel.
10:41
Like I said, it was all my responsibility to pay. It is my vehicle. Yeah, that's true. Yeah. But I pay all the vehicle registrations, to be honest. And we have a few vehicles. And my customer, not my customer, my husband,
11:05
so he has an earth moving business. So he we've got trucks and other people that use anyway some of these same thing. You're not being advised. But I yes, all the same stuff. But I do take that responsibility on in the household about who's paying what. But I feel like he I've started to do a bit of reconditioning on him and those family dynamics to go well. Hey that's not all my responsibility. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We all need to like that mental load of taking on all the administration which does leave
11:35
into the topic of the day. But I gotta do my truth first because it is, it is very related to that is about role playing and what roles we actually play in our household and the impact it has on people's financial wellbeing. So yeah, we'll come back to that. But it is related OHP and we've got Apollo (the dog). This is Apollo, everyone. He's joining us today. He can be our money pooch team
11:57
pooch. Yeah, that's right. The money pooch. The money pooch. Yeah, that's really good. Yeah. Yes. So, yeah, I think that
12:08
the system let you down, you know, in summary. But I do think like if the message that we take away is think about things that emergency, you know, or things that happen that you're not planning, there's always going to be unplanned and we'll always be unplanned events that you have that to deal with. The lesson also for me was like how you navigate that, like not great situations. Like it's life is always going to throw those things. So it's how you kind of approach it and deal with it. That's right. And take something
12:38
good out of it. And like, the good is you've shared that story. And I know that's why I'm on it first. And make sure it doesn't happen to me. Community service, Good community service. I think it could happen to anybody because the system doesn't let you know this stuff. Yeah. No, they don't. Anyway, yeah. Yep. My truth is about financial planning, actually. So we. My husband is, and I forget his age. I'm not very good at this am I? I'm 53 and he's nearly 56. There we go.
13:14
And he probably thinks about life in a bit of a different way than me. So he compartmentalises like once you get to 60, you're able to retire. Well, that's his goal, to retire where I don't see life like that. So I don't wanna put a date and a time on it as long as I'm doing purposeful work, you know, So, but I don't think he will retire at 60. But it has prompted us to think about what our plan
13:45
is between you know now and then and his goal of being able to not have to work in his job if he chooses not to. And that was probably the trigger and it was actually after some conversations that you and I had about what we wanted out of our business, which is also a really good thing to do for people that are self employed like you know what, what do you want the business to provide for you And in relation to that goal and it certainly having a business partner and it's really good to have those
14:16
conversations and see where you're going. And on some page that was really helpful because that triggered us into saying, OK, well we really need to review financial planning. We haven't done that for a while. So we have done that and the main thing that was reviewed out of that is that we have a self managed super fund
14:36
and it hasn't been performing to market standards. And that's also been a trigger actually because we've been doing some workplace workshops and things. And in our online course, there's a topic about financial education and it's really important to understand the performance of your super fund, how is it performed compared to the industry norms
14:58
and you know, how's it going. So I've been doing a bit of that too and you know, I can log in and look at, you know
15:05
this super and how it's been performing And so I've been more focused on that. And yeah, so really wanted to have a review of that and you know with lesser years left to go to access it, we wanna obviously optimise its return and we definitely want industry standard or above it be awesome, right? So
15:26
yes, so we that's why we went to a financial planner and reviewed that. So thank you Ayal for doing that and he has recommended you know some changes in there and what we're investing in. So because of self managed super fund we've had to sell shares of companies we don't want and then we're putting them into some more different investments more like the ETS and the managed funds. Yeah. So it has been a really good exercise and I guess the moral of the story is
15:56
you know, how long have you were you since you've reviewed your super? If you haven't, go and go and do it, see how it's been performing against other, you know, other funds and whether or not you need to make some change. Yeah. Can I ask why you started a self managed super fund? Great question because like for me I'm like why would I think that I could outperform the market? Like I don't see you everyday researching it. Like what was that? Yeah, really good question. So when you set up a self managed
16:28
the fund, when I used to work in corporate, so Dennis and I used to work for the ANZ Bank and you know being in finance ANZ used to have a financial planning service. And so we went and saw some financial planners. I really think it was a trend, it was.
16:47
I can't think how long ago we did it, maybe 12 to 15 years ago. And the reason we did it was because it was a bit of a trend. They thought the amount of super we've got, you know at the time we probably had 6 or 700,000 in super and yeah, and I think it will really was just a trend. Everybody was thinking let's go a self managed super fund. But realistically if we didn't have it now, we wouldn't set up a self managed super fund. Would you go back to just going into a industry or
17:23
the regular fund. So we talked about that actually with Ayal whether we should do that because I was pretty much all for it because the fees are auditing and accounting are actually more expensive than a you know than a fund. The thing is because we've already got it set up and
17:41
Dennis really likes the way the systems and that that it's in and that's the way he's wired so it would take a lot for him to move away completely from it Hmm So we've done sort of a staged move whereby we're investing in more ETF managed funds. We'll see how that goes. But what I've found is it limits us because it's self managed super fund it does limit us into being able to invest in because I inquired I'd really like
18:12
more ethical type of and you are limited with some of those and what you can do because I've got a self managed super fund. You can be you're saying you're self managed super fund will give you more choice and you can be more specific about what you invest in which does align more to your values. You could instead of going to a big fund manager who's going to do it ethically or not. Yeah, you know could if you really wanted to spend the time and the effort we've got the ability to do that ourselves. And so we want to buy some of that,
18:43
do some of that. Now the question is will we or won't we? That's the question. Time will tell. But for now I'm just gonna see how it performs with the changes we've made and then yeah the question is do, cause if it outperforms
19:00
after the fees, then it should still be good, but if we didn't have it set up for wouldn't do it. And the reason we kept it for so long though was because we're self employed where it is can be advantageous if you buy a business property in your self managed super fund that you work out of and you know depending on you know business we kept it open because of that. But as time has gone on and the style of business we are, you know, with Mel and I and where we've taken the business,
19:31
I just can't say it's having a fixed bricks and mortar. Yeah. Building, yeah. Feels not like us. They're not flexible enough. You know, we serve all over Australia and you know, it's not just a local business. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah, well, very good. I feel like we don't need to thrush that one out. We’ll see how it goes.
19:55
So good. All right. Well, thanks for sharing that. That's cool. And today, like we really wanted to talk a lot about gender role playing like at home a little bit more. We love talking about that. Yeah. And really, particularly because it's a bit topical at the moment because the Workplace Gender Equality Agency have just released their first ever annual report. Yeah. So what is that report? Yeah. So for the first time ever, if you've got, I think it's more than 100 employees? and you’re private enterprise. Yeah. You have to report in some data to this agency that's been set up by the government, which talks about different roles in the organisation and genders. You know, so men and women are different, all different roles in your organisation and what your gender pay gap
20:57
is. Yes. So really that whole agency has been set up to fight, to fight the gender pay gap, you know, because we can't hide anymore. So these are public companies have to report and tell us what their gender pay gap is. That's right. There's no hiding. And so the problem is, well, the first thing is I think it's fabulous that we've got this. So it's giving some transparency that's a step in the right direction. You can even go, like, if you're looking for a new job, you can look at that business and go, well, hang on. What's the gender pay gap? What am I up against? There's a woman. Yeah,
21:29
here go and work for that company because it's right there. You can look up every single company in Australia. Yeah, And see it shows how many men and women they're employing as well does it? No, it's percentage of, yeah, men and women in the workforce. So it might, you can see if it's really skewed towards employing men or women and then also what the difference is between how much men and women are being paid at that
22:00
organisation. That's right, exactly. So on overall in Australia we've got, if you put all, you know, all those companies that have done it, it's 21%. So the pay gender gap between men and women, women are paid less, 21%. And if you, you know, some of the key points I think out of the report that I've picked up on is why is that mostly women
22:27
are in those lower paid roles in organisations. So we call that the “slops” and we'll talk about in a minute why do women take the slops like it's a really interesting question and you've got less women in leadership and management roles. So that is a key, key reason we've got a gender pay gap industry wise. There are a couple of industries that I've identified that are outperforming
22:57
the norm and some of them are actually got better. No gender gap. Sometimes women are being paid more in these organisations and the industries are education and health.
23:10
I would still want to ask whether they're being paid fairly in education and health, given that the roles they're paying, like applying. So in if I think about education and our teachers and I know I can only talk about like what kind of happened, it's not the public system that's been reported in here either, it's the it's just private. So I do wonder whether that could be different once you get public in information. Yeah, very interesting because like in general, we've got a problem with our teachers. They're not staying in their employment
23:41
because the jobs are stressful. And are they being remunerated properly for educating our children? Yeah. I Yeah. Yeah. Huge question. Yeah. Yeah, that's right. It doesn't talk about women still taking on the predominantly lower paid industry roles. That's right. Absolutely. You would suspect, you know, and yeah, healthcare might like, I'm just thinking all those, like, I know so many people do aged care work. Yeah. You know, low childcare. Yeah. So they're women. Predominant industries, you know,
24:12
and still the trades are being paid higher. Absolutely. So yeah, it doesn't actually, you know, pitch industries against each other, but I would absolutely suspect they're in lower paid industries as well. So, yeah, but those two industries, you know, I think education, the people that had reported it was about a 8%
24:37
gender pay gap and then health is about 13%. So it's still in favour of men though. OK. But yeah, OK, let's industry total, It's a lower than the 21. Yeah. So. And what were some of the worst industries
24:54
first? The worst thing? Energy. Energy. You've got some work to do. Yeah. Some of those companies are up to 45% pay gap. That's it. Yeah. And I can't imagine, like, you know, the roles in, like the disparity in roles in those organisations are that big. Yeah, Yeah, true. So, yeah. So if you look at energy, mining, construction, Yeah, Yeah, Banking and finance. Banking and finance was 25. While You know, Law. Next one.
25:28
So they were, you know, closer to that middle number. But yeah, yeah, so interesting. So more. Yeah, engineering wasn't great either. Yeah, So, but you know, so it just you know if you overlay that and recently we've had, you know we have all, we have an International Women's Day once a year.
25:54
You know, that is a bit triggering, really, because International Women's Day has been celebrated for 113 years, 113 years. We've had a day, especially for women.
26:04
I found this year particularly triggering, not equality. I wasn't like, I think in other years when I've gone on, we've got an International Women's Day. Yeah, like, let's like, yeah, go girls. This year I felt really kind of like disappointed, like that we haven't made progress. Yeah, that we're still talking about the same old ****. Like I've been talking about this personally for like 10 years going. And I think at the when you start and then as time goes on, you kind of get worn down, you go, what is this mess
26:35
and what is it really all about? Right. And why aren't we at there? And I think we can all, you know, have reasons or things that we can change our own behaviour onto, you know. So yeah, the reason why we care about it so much is because women like we care about financial wellbeing, and the financial wellbeing outcomes for women are worse. Yeah. Particularly, like for women in, you know, after their 50s. Well, young women as well. But like that homelessness in women, we've talked about
27:06
that before because they stay in relationships. It's how we manage our households. Still this societal problem where women take so much time out of the workforce. Yeah. And then they become unskilled. Yeah, we're not earning the superannuation. And then we're still in this like role care playing thing in the household where we're taking on the majority of the administration burden and also caring for the children. And then when they come back into the workforce they take the floor,
27:36
take this slops because it's like we are conditioned. Well, I don't know this is interesting whether we're conditioned or whether maybe we just made this way. But I don't want to accept the made this way. I think we're just we're not made women caring. Nurturing. Yeah. We're caring and nurturing. Yeah. So what we do,
27:59
yeah. So whether or not, you know, naturally we take those roles and then a few things happen and there are things we can do which you know, we can come back to in a second. But when we take on those roles and if we're out of the workforce and look, if you've got a mortgage these days, two people have to work. It's just where society and economic be. You wanna drive the car around and live in the house and eat food and you do things with your kids. That's right. And it could be a part time wage or a casual ways that tops it up. But predominantly women
28:29
taking that, so they're looking after the kids, maybe if you've got children and then you might be doing a bit of, you know, part time work or casual work. And that's why we tend to take the slops or believe that we just can't get, can't we both and believe we can't get out of a relationship because they are dependent on the money. So our lives are so intertwined with this money thing because if you're in a crappy relationship and you've been out of the workforce, where are you going to live? How are you going to pay for life?
29:00
How you going to support your children like that is or do we just make do with what we've got? Like I think most of us, if you're truly honest with yourself, are in a relationship because it's easy, because it's going to make life easier and it's hard to go and do it all on your own. How do you separate from what you've got? So that, like to be a really truly independent person nowadays is hard, particularly if you haven't been that way right from the get go. That's right. And if you wanna house and you, you know, if that's a desire, those things, it's hard to do that
29:31
as one person. And that's not just a woman issue. It's a man and a woman issue like you. It's a 2 income situation. How are you gonna raise those kids? And it's everyone's responsibility to make all the household work and work work. So yeah, so I think we just haven't come out of, you know, maybe 100 years ago where women weren't able to work when they had kids or you know, so that job was for them to stay home and look after the kids. But because of economic reasons we've had to shift. So women are picking up more work
30:02
to make ends meet, but the system hasn't supported around them to make those changes. So when they're out of the workforce, they don't get paid superannuation for example. That's actually a rule, as recently the government's about to change that, which is good thing. But if you're not doing that, but other things we can take the lead at home on. Stuff like that I heard the other day, why couldn't, if you're in a partner with a guy, you know, a guy and he's working and you're not working for a period of time, why can't he give you
30:33
his portion of that super for that period of time? Yeah. Why can't that happen? Yes, of course it can happen. Of course it can happen. But we don't think like that. We don't do well. The other thing is too, like if you do separate from someone, you're legally entitled to half of that superannuation anyway. But women, well, I hear this all the time that they were like, no, he can keep the Super. I want to keep the house, things like that, you know. So we're not thinking objectively about how to separate. We're thinking very emotionally and we don't know the difference or the like. It's a very blurry
31:03
line to make objectional because we're also not qualified to make money decisions and we kind of tap out and making some of those money decisions sometimes. Yeah and I'm going to talk about this a little bit later but it's like how do you have an exit clause all the time for a relationship like what is that financial exit plan for relationship even if you're happy in a relationship I well I talked about this a lot I think if you can have those conversations with your partner you'll actually make your bond stronger. Yeah. People resist maybe having it because of, you know, might think that they're
31:34
about to walk out or something. Yeah. Or how you need to have a be able to have those vulnerable conversations at home. Yeah. But to keep our independence and it makes us stronger, it makes us more empowered
31:44
definitely. And there are definitely things that workplaces can do as well. 100 percent. This triggered me actually around this report time because Mel used to work with Mel at Rams and Mel I had, I employed 2 senior loan writers and the first one I employed was a guy and I paid him top dollar to come with high expectations of what he would do in the business. And because of circumstances, I had the opportunity to work with
32:15
Mel, and I really, really wanted to work with Mel. And financially, I thought the only way I could make it work. And you know, I offered her what she asked for. There's so many, so many stories in this. It was half, yes, it was 130 and 80 I think. No, I was being paid 60,
32:35
oh 60 plus commission. Yeah. Yeah. So 60 plus commission. Yeah. Yeah, that's right. That's less than half. That's correct. Right. Are you doing the same role as working the same hours, doing the same job? Exactly. So this was really triggering for me last week and this went on for years
32:53
until you know to Mels credit and it was about 3 come back on to me in a minute, raised it and said and I matched it. So I think of the role that I've played in gender equity.
33:08
I didn't do the right thing. And I've thought about it, analysed it and I could look for my own, you know, situation. I couldn't afford it or, you know, whatever those reasons were. But what I should have done was be upfront, because I think workplaces should be open about salaries and because I was conditioned a certain way in workplaces that, you know, that’s sensitive you can't talk about wages, you don't. So it's a private thing. So in my mind I, you know, justified it,
33:39
um, because of those type of things, but that is actually one of the core root causes. Organisations should be open. That would be a next step in the workplace
33:51
support to be able to say, are you sharing across your organisation everybody who knows what they're getting paid? Yeah, because that would stop some of this happening. And if I was more bolder and actually had all the wages, that would never have happened. Yeah, because I stand for gender equality. Yeah. You know, and sometimes we have blind spots around that actually happening under our watch. And we have to be better at that.
34:23
And I have to be better at that and walk that walk. So what? Yeah. Yeah. So if I had my time over again, I would never have done that and doing the work that we do now as well, you know, and looking at really what the root causes of these problems are. So I think it's really important that we do things in the workplaces to better support families. And it shouldn't just be for women, it should be for families.
34:52
I feel like I hate the terminology maternity leave. Like it is not maternity leave. It's parental leave, like the sperm and the egg. It's two parties. They make a baby. Yeah, they both want the baby. Like, I just, I really do think this, this nature nurture thing is a real thing here. Like, yeah, we are so conditioned to women and they still say maternity leave all the time. Like, I'm getting it
35:22
on the weekly. Yeah, maternity leave. And I'm like a little Rombom in my throat. Yeah, around that. Yeah, like we need to have workplace policies and I know that they're coming along where men can take parental leave. That is all great. That's awesome. But still, it is women who are taking on the majority of the caregiving will either quit their job, come back part time, lesser hours. That time out of the workforce means that they are losing skills and job opportunities.
35:53
And I have heard people talk about this where somebody wants to come back in so a woman wants to come back into a workplace, they might have been in a management position. Yeah. And that they come in back into that management position on a part time basis. Yeah. And then you've got people in that organisation working full time. And the mentality is why should I take orders or direction from somebody who's part time coming in and out. And I've heard this example where in this situation that woman has gone,
36:24
had another baby, God forbid. And then still can you believe the nerve that she wants to come back in at that same job? I know I've heard people ***** about this is like BBQ talk. Yeah, that that woman wants to come back in at the same role when all these people, they haven't taken time off, you know, So this is like that ********** and the cat fighting that women are still doing, like cause it's almost like the decision you need to make, Like, do I not take time off yet? Do I just keep going because I need to keep my job online? There's totally validity
36:55
in that way thinking. But then that woman who has the time off, we, it doesn't really have the right to come back into that leadership role again. Yeah. Because of the time off. But the workplace needs to support that woman. Yeah. I believe to come back in, have flexibility to work part time and allow men to do this too because our culture doesn't allow men to stop. It's like you're full time or no time. Yeah. Like it's OK to have you six weeks off. Yeah. But can you come back into that part time leadership role and
37:25
that. I know I’m going on a rant here. It's 7% of all roles are part of leadership roles are part time 7%. How about, yeah, 7%. Yeah, but guys can do them too, right? And yeah, there is that unwritten rule in some culture like organisations with their culture that it's not OK for guys, even though they might have a policy totally unwritten. It's not the done thing around not the don't you know I do like I can't do that like even like
37:56
the person who's thinking I might do that, that thought might be so fleeting because they know that they can't really entertain that as a valid sort of - going back part time. Yeah no it's so we haven't got flexibility in thinking even though we all might be on the fringes of thinking that we want more flexibility as a whole. We need to come together and talk about how we could solve a for a more flexible workplace. Can we bring our children to school. Can we breastfeed our I think places where they said can you take that breastfeeding somewhere else
38:27
after sharing a lunch together I've watched you eat, baby can't eat, like it's ridiculous isn't it We need to get better and but I do think there's lots of stuff workplaces do but we can also think about the roles we're playing at home and what we are telling our kids because you know I it's interesting right. I'd say in my household, we do play equal roles in in sometimes some of the home stuff, you know, Dennis does more
38:58
than I do, but it evens itself out, you know? But you know, even my daughter Lily, you know, we're in the car the other day going to school and she was telling me about a teacher she really loves, was taking parental leave. And why was he taking parental leave? He wasn't the one having the baby. This is what she said to me.
39:18
And so there's obviously because she said her and her friends were talking about the girls. This has come from a conversation in the in the playground with kids and she's you know 13 years old, almost still conditioned to think some why that that's the way it should be. Yeah. So I mean that was great that she talked about it because then she had to hear me go on about it.
39:43
But what you said right or you know, again, we're still conditioned with kids around it for people around us. We need to be doing some. The other thing I hear out of that is that she loves that teacher. So awesome teacher. Yeah, he's a guy and he's taking parental leave. I don't know the guy. I like the guy. I like him already. Alright, don't know him, but he must be doing something to like have that sort of thinking going on and have that ability to go right. This is how I want to contribute.
40:11
Yes, some organisations are doing it better than others, definitely. And as a society we are doing crap. I'm like giving us a really bad low score on that. We're one out of 10 as a society to provide that flexibility for each other. Yeah. So how can we talk about this a little bit with more, More of an open mind.
40:32
Yeah. Yeah. And take actions that take action at home. Challenge your workplaces so, you know, and that's hard. If you're like challenge your workplace, what do you feel that first person, you know, these things take time, really hard. But you know, coming back to, we've got to do a little bit more of a walk. I mean, talk. We've gotta, you know, do something. So, you know, whether it's conversations you're having at home with your children. Yes, actually, the roles you're playing at home and what you can do. Definitely. If you're a woman, don't accept the slop. When you go back to work
41:02
and value your making sure you know and asking whether you're being paid the same as a guy and, you know, challenge your boss. But, you know, I wanna leave this conversation to say, Mel, I'm super sorry about that situation. And if I, I can't take it back and I can't change it. Yeah. But I wish I never did it. Yeah. Yeah, I appreciate that. Thank you. Yeah. And I think I pretty much addressed it as soon as I became aware of it. I don't know how I became aware of it,
41:33
but I did. Yeah. Yeah. And then I'm like, well, hey, I think I sat on it for a week and then I went, got it only a week. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. But mind you, like, there was three years of disparity of like, the previous. And like that did hurt me for a long time. Like, I think there's still some hurt there, right. You know, Like, yeah, yeah. And I think I'll beat myself up forever about it. But yeah, but it's not right. And if you are a small business out there and you're doing that,
42:04
don't you know what, dude? Change something, Do something. And you might. You know, as I said, sometimes these are blind spots. But do something, if you are one of those,
42:14
don't do it. Yeah. There's so much in that, Yeah.
42:18
Hmm, very good. Yeah. And it's a bit of a longer podcast today, people. But now we wanna live with a question or talk about some clients that we work with to understand, might share some inside or you might relate to their stories and might give you some. Yeah, information. So we come up a lot with people who are separating. So financially they do need to do a financial separation and then work out housing situation. They might own a house, that might need to sell a house, re-buy houses, things like that. Anyway, I have a client who has separated in the past and after the back of that separation was able to buy small unit and they now have a new family, new partner, mixed kids, 4 kids in the mix and they're renting. And then the question is, yeah, we're happy with renting where we are. It kind of fits our lifestyle.
43:20
We're living in the area that we need to right now for the kids. We probably are not in a position to buy a house for you know what we need where we live. But maybe for our long term future we would like to buy something that we might want to retire in together or it could be a even a holiday house that we could use in the meantime. Something that to build financial resilience as well. I think it's too. Yeah. For the long term
43:51
financial position, like to buy property. Hmm. And yeah, that retirement and the security for the future. Hmm. Yeah. But then that kind of raised the question of how to do that. And that was, you know, cause they might not be in a position to, you know, put a deposit on. So do we use the equity that's in the existing property that's owned by one of them, which was, and that property was viewed as a safety net for that person who would have exited another relationship because she's like, well, hang on,
44:21
that's my backup plan. That's how you get **** hits the fan again and I need to get over this one. Me and my kids have got somewhere, somewhere to live.
44:31
Or if it's all goes to plan, my kids have got something for their future. It's going to kind of help me cause I've kind of been through it before. So that exit strategy and plan for me is basically personified in that house. Right. Helps sleep at night, too, right? Yeah. So. And I don't want to leave myself in that same position. I think that forms our money story. When we've been through something, we're like, well, I'm not doing that again. Yeah. Like what you just said about the wages are not doing that. I'm not betting. Yeah, that's right.
45:00
I am going to new life forward. So with this situation like because I kind of challenged them saying you're not in a position to just go and buy another property now. Yeah, like there's not enough deposit or equity and all borrowing capacity like it's just not something for right now, maybe that's something that you could do in the future. Yeah. And these are the things you need to work towards or you may need to consider selling that other properties to for the new one. And it said that
45:31
change your perception of. Hmm. Well what's cause you cause I believe you always need an exit strategy. Yeah. We're coming back to it just might change. Yes. That's right. And it is OK Are you OK with the change and comfortable you know to do that. Yeah. So also think like if you this is 2 edges right. If you're in this relationship then you're all in and you should be trust and you know but if you've been through
46:02
nothing before and there are no guarantees in life and it is really healthy. We've talked about to work through worse scenarios and say you know that's what it is in case of
46:15
but it depends what underlying is also linked to. You know that money do I see that money is mine versus ours.
46:23
And you know, because you know we always say you, you put all your money in together and you know, but Are you ready for that? I know it's maybe take some talks a lot about the relationship, actually. It's
46:37
because we're also in this stage where it takes 2 incomes to do anything. Yeah. And to plan for the future and have like that retirement strategy. It's gonna take the two people. Yeah, the banks gonna wanna see two incomes on that. Yeah. Loan application, definitely, yeah. But and then so are they. It's confusing. Are these relationships of convenience again or relationships Because you're really committed to it. And so making financial decisions can be really hard, particularly if you've been dated before. Definitely. So I don't think there's any right or wrong.
47:08
There is no right or wrong but open communication, open communication and finding out the information. So even in that situation may not be ready to do exactly what they thought you know might be a good idea. But what do you need to do to get there? What doing a pros and cons list too? Like, am I OK with that new situation? Yeah. What are the risks
47:30
and playing that through to like a worst case scenario like if we broke up and we committed to this, is that OK? Because then you've always got a business plan for yourself really is and it's OK. I think you just need to kind of nut that out and go right. Well, if that worst case scenario happened, I'm OK with it. That's right. Or hang on. No I'm not. You will you're what do you tell you know you're feeling will tell you whether you're OK with it or not and we did priorities and trade off as well. So and it's the information that will help you make those decisions. So don't
48:00
in the dark in the feelings and go, I wish I had this or make a decision out of fear or the past story that, you know, like it's like getting a bit of professional help chatting it out or nutting out the numbers for yourself. Yep, definitely getting, you know, running all the scenarios, working it out. Because is there another exit plan? Could be, you know, like, you know there's not always just one. No. You know, if you worked it through and considered others and did the math on them
48:31
and also, you know, maybe there's a better savings goal now, save more to get it and keep the other one. I mean, you know, it depends on the situation, what you're committed to, to be honest. Like it sounds a little bit like if you're having these conversations with your partner, they're like, oh, hang on, yeah, but really working it through could bring you a lot closer, I think. So definitely communication was the key for me. You know, work out together and you know,
48:58
looking good sign of the relationship. If you can't talk about these things, it's almost like that's a prerequisite for a relationship nowadays. I know well, I think especially with what we're talking about with you want independence or interdependence within a relationship. That's right, you've got to talk about these things and work those things out. And the more you talk, I think the better off everyone will be. That's if you're going for the change. Otherwise, if you're happy with the status quo and being a housewife and whatever,
49:29
good luck too. That's what you want. That's OK.
49:33
Yeah. If you're happy. It's so interesting because, like, I think age gives you perspective is in my, what wise age of 40. Yeah. Because like, even if I think back about what we were talking about with my wages and salary, like that is like ignorance on me, too. Like you learn these things and I've always trusted you. Do you know what I mean? So, like, on me, like, back then it was me. Like I undervalued myself. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's what we do, you know, the. Yeah, I don't know whether and I always
50:04
jobs indeed we didn't talk but you know I didn't say no. You're taking the slop, so you know that is the problem. It it's both sides. You know like interesting. But yes, but there are, as I said, there's things that should be done on workplaces to stop that. If you had better controls in place where you know everything was visible, that would stop that because people wouldn't want that. I don't think a lot of the time they're just,
50:34
yeah, conditioned. We've been conditioned in certain ways. And that communication, openness, honesty with yourself and with knowing what you need and what you want in life. Yep, Clarity. That's right. And we have an online course for our people.
50:51
Yes. So we, we have recently launched an online course. You know, just to finish off today. We're super proud of it. It takes you through steps to financial wellbeing. You can do it over and over again. You can stop, you can start. It's at your own pace. You have this stuff for life because these are things that you need to work through for life. You need to understand yourself first of all. So like that money story, your money personality, how you behave with money, what you believe to be true and then be really focused about what you want
51:21
and how you're going to get there and understanding the information you need to start making practical money decision. Exactly this scenario is best scenarios. Work out your path forward, how long it's going to take you and then track how you're going and keep reviewing it, you know, and you're goals. Yeah. So yeah. Thank you for today. We'll see you next time. Yeah.
51:46
At The Money Collective we provide financial wellbeing, premium coaching, mortgage broking and workplace financial wellbeing programs which we couldn't do without the seamless support of our fabulous team. If you'd like to find out more, head to themoneycollective.com.au or our socials to take action and engage our services. In our Facebook group join the conversation and help us break down the taboo around money. All content in this podcast is for educational purposes only and is generally nature. For tailored personal advice, please seek out a professional.
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Podcast by:
MEL PEARCE & DARLENE NEU
Co-Founders, Financial Wellbeing Coaches and Mortgage Brokers
The Money Collective
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